For as long as Zeitgeist has existed it has been hosted on Launchpad. We made use of almost every Launchpad feature and grew to love Bazaar. The tight integration between Bazaar and Launchpad should be a taken as a grand example to the community, and the the team hacking on Launchpad and Bazaar has been always very responsive, supportive and above all incredibly approachable. The Zeitgeist team hosted all of its projects on Launchpad which made our development process very agile. I really need to thank the Launchpad team for hosting the project from its inception.
During the course of the last 3 and half years, Launchpad served us well and allowed us to handle:
- ca. 748 unique bugs reported
- ca. 231 merges
- ca. 53 code contributions
We hope that many other great projects will find a valuable home on Launchpad. Without Launchpad, Zeitgeist would have not reached the level it has now.
But time changes and projects grow. The Zeitgeist team has a stable developer base of minimum 7 people putting several hours a week into Zeitgeist development and deployment. With these efforts comes the need of a vendor neutral platform hosted and serviced in a way that serves the interest of the project best.
Due to the deployment efforts being made to get Zeitgeist integrated with applications, our developers got more and more exposed to git. A stream of developers expressed their desire to work with us, however they were very uncomfortable or unfamiliar with bazaar and Launchpad, due to the popularity of git. That is something we do not understand in the core team, but still something we respect and will act on.
We couldn’t find a good direct replacement for Launchpad honestly, but since Bugzilla is something like the defacto standard for most people we decided to host Zeitgeist on Freedesktop.org (I must admit in-patch commenting in Bugzilla is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet).
We needed to wait until we finished the 0.9 release of Zeitgeist as well as narrow down the bugs to be less then 10 to make the transition as smooth as possible.
Now that Zeitgeist 0.9 is released, all our development will take place on Freedesktop.org and will be mirrored to launchpad, this means no code will be pushed directly to Launchpad, but rather Launchpad will pull from the git repositories. There the Zeitgeist Ubuntu guys (including me) will be syncing bugs and keeping everything intact. So bugs reported in Launchpad will be ported to FDO. But not the other way around.
We did not turn our backs on Launchpad, its just time for us to remove any barriers to getting the widest adoption of and contributions to Zeitgeist
On the road toward Zeigeist 1.0, FDO will be a great home for the project and we look forward to many great new contributions.
So please feel free to have a look at:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/zeitgeist/
P.S: I would like to thank Trever Fisher and Manish Sinha for their efforts porting the code base.
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Another step in the wrong direction…. first work mainly on gnome-shell after gnome didn’t want to include Zeitgeist, and now you leave Launchpad.
Best of luck!
Dear Seif, you may want to know that github is a way better place than fd.o
Ofcourse ymmv
Greetings
Somewhat hypothetical.
If launchpad grew native support for git branch hosting (ala github) would the project still be using Launchpad for primary development still? Or would infrastructure vendor neutrality still be important enough to require a move to an alternative development infrastructure provider.
Hi,
Nice that zeitgeist moved!
How about KDE?
The current zeitgeist is all vala stuff and glib. That does now mix well with KDE. (Qt stuff mainly) So, are you guys planning on making the zeitgeist “desktop neutral” thus not depending on any packages from either KDE or Gnome? Or is that just a “dream” that is never going to be realized?
Just to clarify. Being desktop neutral means making zeitgeist with C++ and perhaps use a few other libraries to easy the use of SQLite and dbus. Certainly no Qt, kdelibs, gnome, gtk or gio! BOOST perhaps, but even that might be a big dependency.
Just my question
@Jef: infrastructure vendor neutrality has a higher priority. Else we would have just moved to github.
@Mark: KDE already has modules with GLib/GObject. Thus we are neutral imho. We have libQZeitgeist already developed.
@Seif Lotfy: ahh right: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kdesupport/libqzeitgeist Forgot about that one. But i’m not reading a lot about Zeitgeist on KDE.. I can find a lot of things about nepomuk and akonadi on kde but zeitgeist seems like it’s not really being picked up there.
Sorry for the post spam. Last thing i can find about zeitgeist is: http://wm161.net/2012/03/30/zeitgeist-webrowser-in-four-steps/ .. is there anything more coming anytime soon?
@Mark
We’re working on building a totally new startup UI for Dragon, KWrite, and potentially even KOffice. Those projects are still in the early planning stages and will start soon. Most of my time was spent with the kdemm move to git and moving zeitgeist to freedesktop.org.
@Seif
Now while I think I personally understand the importance of vendor neutrality when it comes to infrastructure choices, I’m not sure the importance has ever been adequately explained from an active project leadership perspective (specifically from any project that chooses reduced infrastructure functionality for the sake of neutrality when given the option to move from vendor to vendor-nuetral infrastructure) I would encourage you to think about writing a bit more expansively as to why vendor neutrality in particular is now taking on more importance moving forward with this project specifically. It may be instructive for other projects.
-jef
@Trever Fischer: Thank you for summing that up. No Calligra plans, OpenOffice and LibreOffice plans? ^_-
I like the fact that neutrality is taken seriously. I hope that similar mentality will spread to some other projects, probably most importantly lightdm which is in many ways in similar to this. It wants to be used by “everyone” but is hosted on launcpad while just about every desktop enviromenet out there uses git etc. (KDE,Gnome,XFCE,LXDE…).
I hope team Canonical gets the message one day and realises that git has won the DVCS war. At this point, they’re only hurting themselves.
Someone,
I think your comment missed the most important point. The key _feature_ of the bzr/launchpad system that is missing is “vendor neutrality”.. which isn’t a technical feature. Please remember that up until recently bzr itself required copyright assignment to Canonical if you wanted to contribute to it and was not a vendor neutral development regime. The lesson isn’t that git won over bzr as a technology choice. The crucial lesson I believe is that “vendor nuetrality” wins long term. Both at the level of the end-user implementation and in the development model used to develop the implementation.
Every “interesting” technology that Canonical builds in-house and then releases as open is done with a vendor specific spin to it as part of their business model. The problem is systemic to the corporate culture which directs how the engineering resources are used and how new technology offerings are positioned. I don’t see how the necessary lesson that needs to be learned is going to be internalized in that corporate culture without some significant new blood in the executive team to drive the lesson home.
-jef
Go away, spy-ware peddlers.
@Jef
Don’t take me wrong. I still enjoy Launchpad and I recommend it alongside Github for any new projects.
It is just that we reached a point where Zeitgeist is reaching out beyond Ubuntu in a cross-desktop manner. In that case FDO and git were the best way to get a base to start a tighter integration with other DE. I also believe that with more projects pushing for FDO deployment, we can push FDO to improve its service, maybe use a better bug tracker or something.
I will not deny that my personal motivation (and I don’t speak on behalf of my team) is to get Zeitgeist integration with GNOME going. See http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-April/msg00031.html
It so happens that this also requires us to use git and FDO or gnome. I chose FDO since I still want the KDE integration to continue to flourish.
Hi Seif,
As a translator, one of the first things that strikes me is that you are mentioning only code contributions. In the 3 years that you’ve been using Launchpad, it and Ubuntu/Launchpad translators have provided:
* Complete translations for over 40 languages
* More than 2300 strings translated
My concern is that fd.o does not have any translations infrastructure at all, and in my experience and from feedback from other translators it has traditionally been a bit of a challenge to get translations in there, as it’s not just a matter of asking translators to know about VCSs and committing their translations: you need to get them committed by someone else with permissions (IIRC it is not like in e.g. GNOME where as translators we can get push permissions to the repos). In any case, my plea would be to consider keeping the contribution barrier low for translators, and enable them to use a web UI for translations (which they can also use for translating offline and uploading later, if they want), rather than having them to deal with a VCS and convincing developers to commit their translations.
As you are going to be mirroring the upstream git branches into Launchpad, I would suggest to leave the translations infrastructure in Launchpad in place, and regularly pull the auto-committed translations from Launchpad to the main git branches.
What do you think?
@David Planella
I think we will Launchpad to get our translations and pushing those into FDO. Launchpad will be there to continue working with the Ubuntu community and we will try to take as much as possible from it into upstream. However (code) development will not happen on Launchpad.
I am sorry I did not mention the translations. Will update the post soon
Here’s an idea: Take Launchpad’s source code, write a git back-end, and install it on freedesktop.org — best of both worlds for translators.
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