As part of the Elementary Project we are trying to find easy ways to access the documents, videos, notes, etc…
Recently I experienced second hand how painful accessing documents is while trying to get my grandmother and mother to open recent photos on my brothers computer. He also uses Ubuntu just like my mom. But he uses Do to do everything and his layout is very similar to mine (global-menu bar + docky).
Now my mom couldn’t get around much and later she called me. I told her to open the Pictures Folder. This also took a while for her to figure out where to find it. If it was the normal panel layout it would have been easier for her. However for my grandma it still would have been a pain in the ass since she doesn’t understand the concept of folders.
So lets take a simple use case. You want to access a document but don’t know where it is exactly.
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This issue is already being tackled by Shell as seen here…
To reach this layout we need to click the following “Activities -> Desktop -> Documents”. If you ask me this looks nice but is not intuitive enough. Why should one click on “Activities” if one wants to find a document. Clicking over 3 menus is sort of “exploring to find”.
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Then you can see here how unity does it.
Here you will have to click the (ubuntu logo -> places -> documents (if not found under All Files)). Again very simple but is this intuitive. Why would my grandmother click that logo? For me this is exploring.
Now i agree with both designs that the access should be embedded in the shell, it would be even harder for people to click and open a filebrowser (nautilus) to find their stuff. However after being put in this situation I differ in the execution of set concept.
We need to be able to say documents or music and have something on the screen that gives you quick access to them. At the elementary project we have been sturggeling to find a way to provide such experience in a well designed and good looking form. Thorsten Prante and I spent much time thinking of a way to make give access over finding. So at some point the agreed on using Sezen as a base for this and integrating it into the desktop (not nautilus) rather than having it as a standalone app.
Currently we are playing with the following designs.
and our GSoC student did this…
However we will rename Places to Library in that case. This should make things more obvious and accessible over 2 clicks “Library -> Documents”. Its not much exploring anymore as the before. The only point to be argued about is the naming, Places or Library? How can I name a button to hint me that “Documents” can be found under it?
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Next we have a prototype implementation of a Sezen panel that looks more like this.
It gvies you access directly to your stuff. So if you tell someone go to documents its a one click destination. Not exploring but actually u will find it by looking at the screen.
Yet maybe its not “cool” enough. And navigating through with a keyboard could be a pain in the ass.
So we tried this…
Here it seems to cluttered.
This is a case where design and usability clash. I think its more usable to have “documents”, “audio”, etc. appear in the front yet it just looks to cluttered. When trying to reduce the clutter the intuitiveness is lost and thus usability suffers.
All in all this issue has been bothering me for days now. Please join us at #elementary and #zeitgeist on freenode to discuss this issue.
P.S: I know the panel is deprecated, this is just a brainstorm.
{ 39 } Comments
“Why would my grandmother click that logo? For me this is exploring.”
The same reason why people would click on the Windows icon to start their exploring. You’re right in that it’s not the easiest way to get to where you want, but it’s what we’ve come to expect from the logo button.
@Antonio: Sorry, but repeating the mistakes of other systems is not really an argument for good design.
@Antonio: I totally agree with Andree. Hence my grandma did not know what to click. Making the design not intuitive enough.
Well the first thing I’d do is shut the design off. The same think I did with the hideous me menu. What I see are same bad design decisions on how hypothetical users use th computer. I hate Windows but I interact with my computer via the the Mint Menu. I find many of these tools that supposedly make it easier to get things don just makes it that much harder. I am not sure a you are not using your computer right is a solution to the problem.
@Henry: “I find many of these tools that supposedly make it easier to get things don just makes it that much harder.” I couldn’t agree more. But again how is MintMenu intuitive enough for a grandma to find her documents. Its not any different from what the current menus concepts all provide. Why click on a menu to find a document. Why not have something labeled “Documents” infront of you…
+1 for Applications [Places] System.. screenshot,
i still think instead of Places there can be – Computer – a combination of sezen and gnome`s Places
– All – can have current items from Places, or rename All to Common, rest buttons can sort different elements, i`m sure that will be easy to understand, because for users too much clicks are not a problem.. the problem is – “strange words”
Congratulations for you work! You have a great way of thinking!
Really liked the use of library and the first design idea, the use of rows looks more intuitive for learning.
Has any thought gone into trying to replace the nouns with verbs? Some websites have seen some success for example where they use words that describe what the user wants to do, rather than than the objects they can act on.
This avoids the sticky problem of asking how to handle things like MP3 files showing up in a “Documents” location. We need a better understanding of the user’s intentions of course – tasks and that kind of thing. But that’s no reason to avoid analyzing it as a possible solution.
As an example the Places/Documents menu item in your screen shots all seem to be ways you want to “Find” something.
Sorry, commenting on my comment – I’m not advocating the approach. Just seeing if it has been discussed and interested in the outcome – that’s all.
I have a AWN dock for that. On AWN I have a home, docs etc icon. I do end up clicking Mint Menu – Home or Docs home more often. I have AWN on my mom’s computer.
My concern / fear is certain interactions being dependent on particular uses. I got rid of the top menu so it would be little use. But the more I think about it the Sezen panel would be a perfect fit for the Mint Menu more so in many ways than the Gnome Panel.
@Kirk: AWESOME APPROACH. Yes something like find would make more sense.
@Henry: Again you have some very valid points. Would you mind joining the discussions on #elementary irc.freenode.net
I agree with Kirk that we should be thinking in terms more of verbs than nouns. I think the old model of dealing with files individually is going away and the new model is thinking in terms of what the user wants to do.
In this way, my proposal has always been to build file management and finding tasks into the applications (like mobile devices are already doing). When you want to play music, you don’t go digging through the file system to create a playlist. We have applications that handle all of this automatically. I think other applications must follow. So, if you want to edit a document, open your word processor. it should manage your documents library, help you find what you’re looking for, etc.
These prototypes are what I would call a “better-than-apple” design. I really would like something like this in ubuntu. I think it is time for usability testing and a sabdfl opinion. Why not post this to the Ayatana mailing list?
Apart from that, how would this cope with the system-wide menubar?
Hey, wait. Isn’t this (somewhat) what gimmie was supposed to do?
I’m a power user. What irritates the piss out of me is that every time I open a text file, it asks if I want to run it in the shell. Seriously? What the fuck is that? Would my mom have a clue what that meant? Hell no. Double clicking a text file should open it in the text editor. Maybe, MAYBE have a context menu to run in the shell, but GNOME needs to GET RID OF THAT STUPID PROMPT!!!
I only partially agree with DanRabbit.
While I think it is OK for specialized applications to manage your music, pictures, documents, etc., I *do not* think it’s OK for each app to have their own custom database. I think this breaks with the concept of free software in a *very* *basic* *way*.
The obvious solution for this is that we should agree on standardized databases to be used throughout the system.
This would allow Gnome to provide system apps for search and database management, while at the same time giving 3rd party applications the freedom to show relevant documents from the library in whichever way they find best.
This would lead to some amazing interoperability. For example, if you switched from RhythmBox to Banshee, your database would go with you, including your ratings, play counts, etc.. And if you moved from F-Spot to Shotwell, your tags would not be lost.
The main downside, of course, is that by forcing a standard database we *could* end up slowing down the pace of the innovations in this realm. But as long as this database is somehow freely-extensible by third parties in a self-documenting way, this problem will be greatly minimized. Then, extensions that are used often enough could end up becoming part of the standard, and life would continue…
@Mark: well, the problem seems to be your files/rights management. Files that are should not be executed don’t prompt this warning. -> chmod -x yourfile
Wow, that last screen reminds me of a “hacklet” I did.
I’ve been excited about ZG for a while, and I’m really looking forward to the developments it brings, along with Shell, Gnome3.0 and such!
Great work (to everyone involved!)
@Marco i used to be a gimmie hacker
I found the best way to make the Pictures, Documents, and other folders immediately discoverable is to turn on the nautilus desktop_as_home_dir gconf key.
You log-in and there’s a folder in front of you that says ‘Pictures’.
You may want to take a look at this mockup i made for gnome-shell (but it can be easily rearranged for sezen/zeitgeist too).
sorry, forget the link
http://radel.deviantart.com/art/gnome-shell-sidebar-mockup-161580360?q=sort:time+gallery:radel&qo=3
I think I’d just add a search bar to the panel with some help text in it “Click here to search your computer…” or something for newbs. When it is clicked you could have a drop-down that is a combo of the current Places and Sezen. For power users it would function the same as Gnome Do and be accessible with a shortcut key.
The 2nd to last one could work with some tweaking.
Make it work with the keyboard, (make it obvious which one is highlighted) and I think it could be a winner
Definitely with moving away from noun to verb, this is way we’re going plus, we’re also moving towards an application-centric view of using our machines and the files associated with each application, very much like Dan described. In a sense, there should be a kind of Sezen embedded into EACH AND EVERY APPLICATION, spreading the load of file searching across applications designed to deal with certain files, thus increasing efficiency.
/izo\
One of the issues is the waste in using static icons. When user has chosen to see only audio files, there is not point in showing the audio file icon. The space should be used to expand the filename to display in one line (or diplay Artist – Title), likewise with websites.
Thumbnail results should be used when the user has selected images or videos. In these cases the thumbnail size should be increased and the filename should be shown in smaller text.
I guess you know the work of deskbar-applet, which has a similar UI to your ‘drop down from panel’ suggestions.
I really liked your post and therefore did a mock up of an interface that I would like to use.
http://xubuntix.org/weblog/2010/07/re-accessing-files-made-easy
The interface is of cause not the only problem here, a good search algorithm is even more important…
The term ‘Places’ definitely has to go. How does a ‘Place’ even relate to the concept folders and harddrives? ‘Places’ could just as easily relate to geotagging for all the name tells you.
I prefer ‘Library’ over ‘Places’ but I think ‘Archive’ is better yet. The idea that this is where you have archived all the stuff you want to keep, vs, stuff you just browse online.
Ultimately though, the verb approach might be the way to go.
Either way I love these mockups.
How about a much more obvious and direct name: “Files”. That also directly suggests subsets like “Documents”, “Music”, “Pictures”, and so on.
The problem with the “verb” approach becomes picking the right verb; users with a different verb in mind will gloss over the option you provide if it doesn’t match their expectations. If you say “Find”, that may not draw the attention of a user who wanted to “Play”, or “Delete”, or “Print”. You might hypothesize that they have to “Find” first, but in doing so you assume a certain algorithmic mindset not necessarily present in all people.
By contrast, the set of useful nouns proves much easier to predict.
@Jimbo: How does a ‘Place’ even relate to the concept folders and harddrives?
I think this is related to the metaphor Linux uses for the gui.
In Windows the user is an office workers, he uses documents (files) archived in folders (directories) and when a file is no longer useful it is trashed into the bin.
In Linux the user is a citizen, he lives in his house (/home/username directory) in a city with other citizens (/home/…). Everyone does what he wants in his house, and throw the garbage into the pelmet.
Because viewing a document _IS_ an activity!
@Alberto: Sure it is. But I assume under Activity to find “Open”, “Create” or “Read” and not Desktop and Applications
why not just add a search bar (with the text “search” — gray letters in the background) nothing more – like a web-browser does. Not clicking on anything. The standard how users work with a computer/desktop is how they browse the web ?!
E.g the user types “photos” this should search for it. That means – we would need a search engine which understands keywords/ontology. this hard to implement and I would like to hear if zeitgeist will go in this direction.
I’m a bit older than most people here so I got used to different technologies when it comes to GUIs. I think browsing files is one of the most important things when it comes to administrating an OS or when doing daily work. Years ago Sun Microsystems started developing a new GUI with *usefull* 3D effects — not the crap Microsoft did simply to ceate something that is cool. GNOME shell, Elive and *box are different concepts on how to effectively use a computer system. Regarding the article I think your grandma *should* lear the basic foundations of OS file organization. The approach you made does not solve the underlying problem nor is it usefull enough for experienced users.
I don’t think the verb approach will work on this one since you can do whatever you want with the file you “found” and verbs like browse or find or search don’t work either…searching for something as an activity is completely different from just getting to the file when you know where it is.
also the “Places” has to go. Even with the citizen metaphor Matteo explained your files will still be in your house and not somewhere outside. In my mind Library” makes the whole thing very text centric. I like “Archive” as Jimbo suggested.
One last point: Not everyone is blessed with a widescreen monitor or that much screen realestate in general. On this 12″ 1024×768 screen there is _no space left at all_ in the top panel. I would sacrifice some of my 7 starters for an Archive Button. Adding more than one is completely out of the question.
Nice work Seif
What can I say other than – WOW!
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